I am not debating you on this point. In fact, I agree with you. I am, however, interested in getting your opinion on something. I don’t know if my conscience would permit me to own a bar, even if I think drinking a beer is an okay thing to do.

Suppose I am a tavern owner who doesn’t sell food. Thus, my profitability margin is sustained entirely by alcohol sales. Let’s say that I pull my receipts and realize that the bulk of my sales are made to “heavy” drinkers. Would it be fair to say that my livelihood depends on substance abuse–the purchases made by alcoholics and binge drinkers? If so, am I profiting off “evil”? Am I knowingly contribuing to the exploitation the weak (i.e. chemically dependent persons)? Does the onus lie entirely on the patron to regulate his or her consumption, or do I have a responsibility not to enable them?

Just food for thought. I submit it to the mind of Frasier for response in your own time frame. No rush.

I had to read your comment several times to make sure you weren’t speaking in jest, and I’m still not sure that you aren’t jesting. I’ll assume for now that you are being serious.

After making allowances for overanalyzation, Mohler clearly said nothing about the Baptist faith, alone give a complete description of it. Tee-totalism is no part of the Baptist faith. I know many Baptists that drink. Furthermore, Baptists in England have always rejected tee-totalism (talk to a British Baptist today and the issue of tee-totalism won’t even register for him/her).

Furthermore, even if tee-totalism was part of Baptist theology, would Mohler’s statement really count as a complete description of their theology? Where’s all the other stuff about the ordinances, their christology, their doctrine of Scripture, etc?

Don’t get me wrong, I’m all about giving the tee-totaling Baptists hell, but I usually try to do it judiciously.

Maybe you can give us a more complete version of your comment.

Also, there are biker bars near here. I go there occasionally to shoot pool. But I never go there late on Friday nights because that’s when all the rowdy crowds are there. I have been known to go there during the day when it’s not so busy and crowded. I didn’t see anything particularly “sinful” about being there, though I have no doubt that the vast majority of the patron were “heathrens.” haha

Nevermind. I’m digging myself into a hole here.

I’m sure you feel as I do when I say that this older Baptist view has been sufficiently responded to (often by other Baptists). I hesitated to even write the post because it gives attention to such an absurd view. Giving it attention conveys that it is a view worth taking seriously (whether one intends to convey this or not). I only posted because Mohler is taken to be this careful, strong intellectual in Southern Baptist circles. I used to think that Mohler didn’t really take this view seriously himself and that this accounted for why he was largely silent on the matter but in recent years he has become increasingly vocal (and hasn’t said anything new either). From what I can tell he’s not, as I once thought, just bowing to the main constituency in the SBC but actually shares their view, and strongly.

I can say that I don’t plan to give any more posts to address this issue just as I don’t plan to give any posts to address those who believe in a flat earth. I’ll just let the absurdity speak out for itself.

This older baptist view is a view that is quickly losing ground, and if there’s a view that’s already losing ground I don’t see why I should spend time making it lose ground any faster when there are so many other miserable ideas gaining ground.

Btw, on a separate note, until reading the comments on your blog I never put it together that your avatar is modeled after the Chey Guevara poster. I think you’re right to go after the evangelical picture of a middle-class, nice guy Jesus in the pure white robe with bouncy, soft, Herbal Essence hair. As I’ve reflected on this, it seems many Christians want the same qualities in a Jesus that they want in their pastor: an all-American guy from suburbia who’s always happy, positive and would never dare to commit the cardinal sin of hurting someone’s feelings.

Thanks for the interesting reference–what a hoot! It cracks me up to think that Land (and Paige and Akin–who are referenced on the first page) are actually trying to be serious when they write that stuff!

KWR

http://baptisttheology.org/documents/OnAlcoholUse.pdf

As a “Baptist” (quickly becoming a “former” baptist), it saddens me to see such a non-expositional view regarding alcohol use.

Thanks for the post.

I just realized that you and I are “friends” on Wittenberg Trail. You look familiar but I can’t say that I remember meeting you at SBTS. Anyway, I’m glad to know your story and to have found your blog. I’ve already shared with two people the Luther quote regarding trusting God for physical needs that you posted on your blog.

Right now I’m in St. Louis studying at University of Missouri-SL and taking a class at Concordia on environmental ethics as part of my colloquy. I’m very impressed so far with the students and the professors at Concordia. Maybe you’ll end up in the colloquy program here eventually.

Let’s keep in touch.

We moved from Louisville to the Houston area in Dec ‘06. I resigned from my position at New Cut Road Baptist Church (Fairdale, KY) and took a position at NASA, falling back on my BS in Aero Engineering in order to maintain pastoral/theological integrity when I no longer considered myself Baptist. I have maintained my ministry in the Air Force chaplaincy and may try to go the LCMS colloquy route but as of yet am undecided–the denomination I have my credentials with (not SBC) has a strain of Lutheranism in its past, so I’m not totally out of bounds.

The whole affair with Luther began when I started reading Luther for class…then it turned into a passion…then a struggle…now here we are! It’s been an amazing several years and has certainly taken a course I could never have imagined, but the grace of Christ has proven more than sufficient all along the way.

Peace to you as you continue your Philosophy studies! I enjoy reading your posts here!

T.C.

Actually, his comments do surprise me. I have no problem with Mohler offering a sustained defense of abstinence from alchohol. And he has done so before. That is something for which I have respect. But this dig had no place in the subject he was discussing. I expected better from him. It even fails to make his point since many in his audience will not agree with comments on taverns. Wouldn’t strip clubs have been a better example of the point he was trying to make?

So you’re an SBTS grad and now a Lutheran? That makes you at least the third person that I know of with that story. I’d love to hear more about your decision and about what you are up to these days. I looked at your blog (very read-worthy) but I couldn’t find anything about, you, the blogger.

Anyway, tell me a bit about yourself. Are you still in Louisville?